"The First Cause Argument

The first cause argument is very popular among theists. It is based on the assumption that everything has a cause, and from this assumption it is argued that the universe must have had a cause, and that this cause is a god.

However, if everything has a cause, then the god must also have a cause, and that cause must have a cause and so on infinitely. This is a conclusion that I think isn't palatable for any theist. If the theists, to counter this, claims that his god is uncaused, then he has contradicted the assumption on which the argument is based and has therefore invalidated it.

Furthermore even if the argument were correct, all it would tell us would be that there is a first cause. Calling this first cause "God", doesn't give it any of the properties, which are normally ascribed to gods, it could be some perfectly natural occurrence. I might as well say "I call the chair, I'm sitting on, 'God', therefore God exists"

Why Morton Monrad Pedersen I am filled with sorrow! Why you may ask? I am filled with sorrow because either the Creationists you have talked too have not explained the argument to you in full or you have just simply chosen to ignore the most important part. It is true this is one of our (theists) favorite arguments and it might be between this, intelligent design (which I saw you seek to debunk as well) & the one of my fav's the morality argument (which I have yet to get a good answer too). Since this is indeed one that I am sure you have heard over and over again I will not repeat the whole of the argument simply I will add what you or the persons you have heard this from forgot. The argument is that their at some point had to be an eternal thing (that is something that never needed to be created). This eternal thing from the theists point of view/argument is God. We draw this conclusion from other things but in this argument the conclusion is drawn from whence the argument starts, the cause and effect of which we view all around us. The universe in which we live in is dominated by this rule. For every effect there is and must be a cause. Since we view this everywhere we look the theist asks the question: if this is true and testable in the universe in which I live now perhaps there is a reason for this? But, what oh what could it be? We then go through several other steps and as those steps are put side by side with this we get to a conclusion that there must be a cause for the universe in which we live, and that cause must be eternal.
Let me address the Atheists argument to this (as far as it has been relayed to me through the mouths of Atheists). You say, yes there must be an eternal thing. But you say that eternal thing was matter. it always existed and one day decided to blow up. This however, does not answer another argument, that oder has never been observed to come from disorder. meaning if you look at a watch you say what an awesome watch maker! not I wonder how many millions of years that took to evolve.

The long and short of it Mr. Pederson is that I hope that in the future you would make sure to include the whole argument or at least check on the reliability of what you have heard.

An aTroSitY NoT sO clEarLy vEiLed!

SISTERS, Oregon (AP) -- During his eight days as a part-time high school biology teacher, Kris Helphinstine included Biblical references in material he provided to students and gave a PowerPoint presentation that made links between evolution, Nazi Germany and Planned Parenthood.

That was enough for the Sisters School Board, which fired the teacher Monday night for deviating from the curriculum on the theory of evolution.

"I think his performance was not just a little bit over the line," board member Jeff Smith said. "It was a severe contradiction of what we trust teachers to do in our classrooms."

Helphinstine, 27, said in a phone interview with The Bulletin newspaper of Bend that he included the supplemental material to teach students about bias in sources, and his only agenda was to teach critical thinking.

"Critical thinking is vital to scientific inquiry," said Helphinstine, who has a master's degree in science from Oregon State. "My whole purpose was to give accurate information and to get them thinking."

Helphinstine said he did not teach the idea that God created the world. "I never taught creationism," he said. "I know what it is, and I went out of my way not to teach it."

Parent John Rahm told the newspaper that he became concerned when his freshman daughter said she was confused by the supplemental material provided by Helphinstine.

"He took passages that had all kinds of Biblical references," Rahm said. "It prevented her from learning what she needed to learn."

Board members met with Helphinstine privately for about 90 minutes before the meeting. The teacher did not stay for the public portion.

"How many minds did he pollute?" Dan Harrison, the father of a student in Helphinstine's class, said at the meeting. "It's a thinly veiled attempt to hide his own agenda."

(Above taken from: http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/20/teacherfired.ap.ap/index.html)


I for one cannot believe the amazing atrocities that this young teacher was committing! How dare he do such a thing! The very thought of what he did brings chills to my mind, I myself am scared for our children's very lives! This man is wicked to the core, there can be no hope for him or his teaching carrier.

If Helphinstine be a smart man he would just stop this horrific plan of his right where it started...his ability to think.

Let's just examine this a little and think (oops I know thats a no, no). Thinking for ourselves should never take place! & we certainly do not want to teach our young people to think for themselves! What would happen then? They might find out that our schools are lying to them and that they are being brain washed to not question anything they are taught by their teachers. How horrid!!!!!!

Sure there are a lot worse things we can worry about than weather our children will start to think for themselves, and learn to question things that don't match the facts. But, do you really want them to start seeking REAL truth? I for one am just scared at what might happen!

If we were to focus our time and effort on other things like solving world hunger, or how to cure cancer, or why we are all here in the first place, sure more important things would be accomplished, but in the end who really wants to make a difference in this world anyway?

well, I am outy, hope you found this to be as amusingly horrific as I did.

Late